thank you everyone

[kirke]

Thank you for joining the meeting in such big numbers and for the nice and friendly attitude towards each other. I am a romantic soul so I really felt it as a great moment seeing all these ppl that are usually oponents join in to cooperate.

I understand that the cj-buying clans are not happy about our decision, but you must believe us, that this has been wanted for ages and the fact that all could meet and agree clearly demonstrates how bad the situation is for the spawning clans!

In "good old days" cjs went for 15-20Ks and small clans survived. It is a question about getting organized and raise money if you cant win the cjs. Brann-goldroom in groups and statpotmaking/selling can give a clan a good steady income.

[blind]

no hard feelings, do believe if i were in your position id do the same kt can live thru the changes but not gonna say i wont miss 4k per

[Lupine the Mischeivious]

I didn't attend but I had my trusty dictaphone Rico there so I know all

I too would like to thank all clans taking part in this to make Astonia a better place for spawning clans, it nice to see clans previously a loggerhead together on something.

Good job all!

[Mithas]

I have to say that I'm impressed that this many folks can agree on something.

However, I must say that I disagree....

The two complaints I have heard so far are:

1. Can't afford to buy pots to spawn - Frankly that is like hearing Brittney Spears whinge that she is paying too much tax. I have no sympathy for it at all. Spawning should cost money.

2. Clans are buying CJs and renting learning at a profit. Reasonable complaint - best solution would be to under cut them. Thus they either have to reduce their rental prices or start spawning.

Because issue 2 can be solved by 1 clan alone, I can only assume the cartel stems from pure greed.

BTW - Seems like the drop in prices is a latent, but direct result of the last set of raiding, where by 2 clans lost learning and hence there is a surplus of 40 extra CJs a week. May be the ones doing the raiding should have considered the full concequences of their actions.

[aci]

Mithas, there are some clans who spawn and don't win almost every time. Ghost/DP and whatnot can spawn and essentially know that they're going to get a jewel to pay for some of their pots.

A smaller clan like BS might lose 90% of our regular spawns, which leaves us spending like 20-30k on pots to win 2 jewels, and getting one jewel to our depot and 3-4k in return.

It hardly seems sensible that it would be cheaper to buy our jewels than to win them.

[Lupine the Mischeivious]

Mithas said:

2. Clans are buying CJs and renting learning at a profit. Reasonable complaint - best solution would be to under cut them. Thus they either have to reduce their rental prices or start spawning.

Because issue 2 can be solved by 1 clan alone, I can only assume the cartel stems from pure greed.

BTW - Seems like the drop in prices is a latent, but direct result of the last set of raiding, where by 2 clans lost learning and hence there is a surplus of 40 extra CJs a week. May be the ones doing the raiding should have considered the full concequences of their actions.

The raise in prices is meant to make the learning/renting clans pay more thus making their profits null and void, they will end up spawning like all other clans who want learning, they will earn it as many of us do by spawning for their CJ's, not buying them for less than we pot ourselves for,

The game has way to much money in it, this way we can drain some out and regain balance of the clans.

[skyrage]

But that happens of course due to the abundance of jewels...

This solution won't exactly solve the problem to 100% - at best it will concentrate jewels to a handful of clans only - which in itself is anything but good, however it will open up clan spots - and maybe also reduce these stupid clan selling businesses.

However, I definately don't agree that a clan should be able to survive by abusing learning alone and that other should take advantage of it as well - on the other hand, removing clan bonuses isn't a too good idea either since it's a decent bonus in itself and it burns jewels.

I dunno, I don't think that Ish will remove BS anytime soon - I mean, if I recall it correctly it was implemented cause people wanted to spawn more often or something like that (someone confirm that?).
However, maybe it would be possible to ask him to introduce the trade bonus which NW has (at least I don't think that OW had it).

Works pretty much the same as learning - boost jewel burning in return for reduced prices (not entirely sure if it's on top of trader/bartering abilities and whether it does push beyond minimum prices - but that could easily be changed I suppose). Not only would clans burn more jewels, but it would also cheapen pot-costs for spawning clans. All in all I don't think that this feature would have any negative impacts on OW in any way - only positive.

Only thing is of course if clans would use this bonus as well or not. I suppose that spawning clans would - and if the same clans that act as jewel magnets (by jacking prices) up burn more jewels than the other clans then the "excess jewel" feature wouldn't have as big of an impact.
However, I suppose that if smaller clans were to use this bonus as well, then they wouldn't have to spend as much money on spawning either - although I guess it would be doing so at a slightly bigger risk. Then there's also the question whether this would also be possible to abuse via "renting" - then again that goes for any kind of clan bonus that a clan may have.

But in either case, the ultimate killer is of course the spawner level limits. That alone forces players to make several alts (I suppose this is what could be called the result of digging one's own grave or something like that - players brought this on themselves after all), equipping those alts with best possible equipment (yet another little something that they brought on themselves) and so on and so forth. Removing level limits from spawners would suddenly give small clans a much bigger chance of surviving - on the other hand the current game system doesn't allow for such a thing to happen. I could mention half a dozen obvious reasons, but I'm not going to since I'm pretty sure you lot already know most of them anyway. Another possible option would be to have clan cost vary depending on the number of members that are in the clan (I believe this was originally an idea that never took shape in the very very early days?)- although this would probably cause an insane riot and unless clan membership was to be bound accountwise, this would be very easy to bypass.

All in all, these quick-fixes such as pricejacking etc are nice and all but it will only go so far. Only question is whether it will be far enough to make a considerable difference or not.
The only solution to permanently fix this is a total revamp of the entire game of course - and then I'm talking about everything from clan system to items (sucks that stuff are linked together like that huh? ).

My best bet for an optimal jewel price is around 12-15k, and that is only if I am extremely optimistic and if compare to the old jewel prices. In reality though I wouldn't be surprised if one would have to jack even higher for maximum effect due to the extreme amount of jewels around - however doing that would probably bring a batch of new problems into the equation.

Meh...yet another essay on "system flaws and fixes" finished...now I'm REALLY off to bed!

[Dast]

I think this is a great idea how ever it will only go so far... This will either break lil clans into not being clans and put the club system to good use. or it can make for the littler clans to start spawning... this is unlikely tho because with the numbers that us (DP) and ghost bring alone it would be extremly hard for the smaller clans with low numbers to win reg spawns. not only the numbers from us and ghost but the tacts for FR and the numbers from other clans. Not only because of numbers and tacts but most the current spawners are in 1 of the spawning clans. it would be hard for a non spawning clan wit no exp in spawning to just pick up spawning. In the end they prolly give up and make a club or join one of the already established spawning clans which will make it even harder the smaller clans.

So it will only go so far.... some clan will break when they hit 150 cjs and cant depot or sell em.

[Firena]

Dast said:

So it will only go so far.... some clan will break when they hit 150 cjs and cant depot or sell em.

That's about where BS has been the past 3 months lol, suddenly we win 3-4 cjs from one bs, and no one wants to buy when our cv is full. That's when it's nice to have an allied clan with more space for cjs

But yeah if there's 1 problem for smaller clans to make it into spawning it's the dominance of Ghost and DP. Like I've felt badly in 84s regs. 1 Day it was vs 3 dp, 1 that froze me solid and two saps. Owie that hurt lol. Next day it was 3 Ghost teaming me. Our clan have tried 50s, 40s, 42s, 20s ect and without numbers to match or loads of skill (we accepts new players so well...) it's hard to get something from reg spawns.

I do wonder abit tho.. where's the challenge for ppl in Ghost and DP in spawning? Your almost only competition is each other.

[Rico]

This board is, however, not SOLELY for discussions about CJ price fixing. It's more of a Commitee to discuss any event that involves clans, and to summarise agreements/wars/treaties/ect.

The idea is that if we can keep organised and have a goal in mind, we can drain some money out of the game. People are keeping clans alive for 20k a week. Thats a rediculous price. What we're looking at is 40k a week minimum to keep a clan alive, meaning people who want a clan will either have to spawn for their CJ's or put more of their money into keeping the clan alive.

Yes, the selling clans may profit from it, but most of the selling clans have a higher CJ count, or win alot of CJs and therefore spend a lot on pots.

Think about it: one clan wins 35 of the cjs over the course of a weeks spawning.
They have learning, so 20 CJs go in to support that.
They then have their clan renting cost, so 5cjs to support that.
They have 10 cjs to sell, netting 80k.
Say hey attend every spawn with an average of 5 alts and do 15 20-or-lower (med combos) and 20 24-or-higher spawners (big combos) using a full inventory

5x15x800 = 60000, theres the majority of that 80k there.
5x20x1800 = 180000.
total cost for the week = 240k.

Now I know that no clan spends 240k by spawning in a week. They get money from their cj sales, dont always use full invents and use pots from penting. Some clans have dues to help pay.

But you think, 240k, winning 35 cjs a week using full invents for 5 alts at each... 80k made from cj sales...

Thats 160k money going in those clans by that math. I know the figure is much smaller, but IMO A clan should not cost THAT much to keep if your spawning so much.

[morningmist]

Bottomline is ...We can not make a perfect sytem ...That would take Intent stepping in and making some changes (like as simple as making a spawn team cap where no more then 5 per clan can enter spawn room at one time keeping #'s fair and balanced) and we all know Intend ....will be waiting forever

For the clans that bring tons we as smaller clans should not have to cover thier costs cause they chose to bring that many ...or choose not to have dues ...or choose to keep recruiting when they have tons of members ....

Now for smaller clans and i represent one ...our costs are not that high and keeping a clan alive without learning is extrememly easy ...with learning its not impossible just takes alot of work ..hence earning the learning through spawning
My only problem is ppl who want a clan for no other reason then to rent out learning and have a glorified club with a color above thier heads ...it defeats the purpose of having a clan

I have np with earning what I have ...and working to keep it ...so why do they? ....to me it says lazy ppl ..and well does that deserve learning? and is it our place to say? ....I dont know
Just know its frustrating to watch as a clan leader of small clan that works for everything they have ever had ....So i fully support the jewel increase .....If they arent gonna work for it ...then they should at least pay for it ...
Thats my 2 cents worth

[avic]

lol i think DP and Ghost love fighting each other and than bashing each other afterwards on c5 i really hate it. But its hard to tell a member dont go spawn, when atleast 96% of Ghost play to spawn and only make spawner.

[Rico]

I know what you mean Martin.

I was amazed as how friendly everyone was!

[Masy]

Set the prices to 12K and I'll come online during the Summer *Hopefully* and *Hopefully* there will be empty Clan slots so I can take one
I might just decide to leave Ghost and help the wee little ones! Don't kick me Avic, I still <3 you guys!

[Lego]

Masy said:

Set the prices to 12K and I'll come online during the Summer *Hopefully* and *Hopefully* there will be empty Clan slots so I can take one
I might just decide to leave Ghost and help the wee little ones! Don't kick me Avic, I still <3 you guys!

omg /kick masy! j/k ilu